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Beitrag begonnen von James Allen am 10.10.2015 um 00:54:11

Titel: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors drawings
Beitrag von James Allen am 10.10.2015 um 00:54:11

:) Hi Jim Allen Here in Tacoma Washington. I am searching for details for the Argus central lubrication  pump and oil distributers. In particular I need the correct size of the o- Ring seals in the pump and a source of supply for the rubber pistons for the  lubrication distributors.  Thanks to this forum the Vogel system is quite well covered. I have not been able to find like information for the Argus system. Jim

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von Bela am 10.10.2015 um 10:20:21

Welcome Jim Allen!

The o-ring is 15,5mm x 3,8mm. If someone knows a source for the particular distributor parts many people here would be happy.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von audax am 10.10.2015 um 17:16:55

Hi Jim,
Manfred has offered the O-Ring beginning this year, maybe he still has some.
regards
Reinhard

syncroma wrote:
Hallo Forum!  :)
Habe mir den O-Ring für die Argus-Zentralschmierpumpe
gekauft: 10 Stück kosten genausoviel wie 2
deshalb zu verkaufen
8 mal O-Ring 15,5mm x 3,8 mm
Stck 2,48 €  ;D (Selbstkostenpreis)
plus Porto
Gruß Manfred  (PN oder E-mail)
manfred.schmelz@web.de

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von James Allen am 11.10.2015 um 22:52:02

Thank you for the information. The source of O Rings for the Argus pump is super.  The real difficult topic of  Manschettenkolben.  This morning I sent an email to Vogel in Berlin.  Likely I know the response. However if they can not or will not provide a source of supply perhaps they will provide a drawing. From the drawing a decision could be made on how to reproduce the rubber pistons . I can completely understand why they would not have interest in these little parts. However to think used pistons are anything more than luck for a the best solution for the repair of oil distributors.  This does not address the requirement for Argus Manschettenkolben. I do not even know where to start with the Argus products.   There has to be a solution. :-X :-X.

Jim

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von CraigS am 15.10.2015 um 02:25:31

I assume you have the manual for it. I purchased the rubber o-rings for the distribution valves from someone in Germany. This is the same person that the Classic Centre uses to rebuild them. I can look it up if needed.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von James Allen am 15.10.2015 um 18:48:29

I have the manual. Since the classic center uses your source to rebuild the lubrication systems, perhaps he has found a source for the rubber pistons for both Argus and Vogel oil distributors. There has to be an answer for these parts.  Jim

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von CraigS am 15.10.2015 um 23:51:57

I will go through my receipts and get you the contact details.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von jimattsson am 15.10.2015 um 23:54:06

Hello Jim, as you probably know, the SKF/Vogel central lubrication systems are still among the market leaders worldwide. The distributors have however been redesigned. In the original system (used in Mercedes 170 etc) the necessary pressure for feeding the lubricated spots came from the air cushion in the distributor metering nipple. To avoid problems due to air leakage and to obtain independence in orientation of the distributor, this since has been changed so that the pressure is obtained by a spring-loaded piston in the distributor. In all other aspects however the distributor functions exactly the same way and the tube diameter 4 mm is still used. You may look at the new design here:

http://www.skf.com/group/products/lubrication-solutions/lubrication-system-components/lubricant-metering-devices/single-line-lubricant-metering-devices/re-lubrication-metering-devices/370/index.html

The distributors (series 370) are listed in the SKF catalog on pp 62 ff:

http://www.skf.com/binary/21-30904/1-5001-EN.pdf

Due to the differences in design, it will of course be necessary to change the tubing a bit if you choose to replace your old distributor with a new one. But the function will be the same.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von James Allen am 16.10.2015 um 18:27:38

Jan, I have received information from SKF (Vogel) in the USA. They have contacted Berlin. Berlin sent the following part numbers Seal or piston 301-024-2 and the corresponding Spring 301-026. They also sent the drawings of these parts. I was able to reference them to the original parts.  The pistons are slightly different however the drawings show a design change in 1997 and a review in 2003.  I believe these are replacement parts for the original oil distributors. The DIN 7306 10.2 x13 x.8 fiber sealing rings are not available that I have found. 10 v 14 yes.   However I machine the original diameters from larger fiber rings. In today's correspondence  there was not mention if stock was available. So naturally it is Friday evening in Berlin so it will be three days at best before I know if there is a source of stock. The drawings were a great assistance. Perhaps this week end I will read up on how to make precision low production rubber parts!!! I certainly hope there is stock and I do not have to machine a mold. My desire is to keep the system 100% original if at all possible. Once the Vogel code is cracked then I will work on the Argus piston requirements. I do not want to put my system back together with old pistons. After 60 years the pistons function like myself almost like good as new. I think I can improve on this.  Thank You,  Jim  

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von jimattsson am 18.10.2015 um 19:33:03

Hello, the fibre sealing ring 10 x 13 x 1,0 you may find e. g. here. Nominal dimension 10 mm means physically 10,2 mm. I doubt that these rings will be available in 0,8 mm thickness though. The difference in my opinion is unsubstantial.

http://www.lelebeck.de/2600.htm

I also attach a drawing of the Vogel seal, based on the measurements I have made on my own original parts. Maybe it can be of any help for you. It would be interesting to compare it with the one you got from SKF.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von James Allen am 23.10.2015 um 22:20:21

I will attempt to attach the Vogel drawing. If it does not come through I will try again until I susceed

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von James Allen am 23.10.2015 um 22:32:00

I believe it went through. I will now attempt to add the spring drawing. Thank you for the source of supply for the seal rings. I have made about 75 of them. They are quite easy to make. I use a larger 10 mm seal ( fiber washer) and stack them on a mandrel and turn them down on the lathe. Quite simple actually, but certainly not as simple as purchasing them. In the good old USA we have our system of measurement based on our Mother Country's measurement system. Oh it would be so much better if we were on the metric system. I know in Sweden you have the reverse problem with American cars there.  In reality metric hardware is not difficult to obtain in the USA. Had I looked longer I would have found a source of supply for the 10.13 seals. However with time on my hands and a beautiful Italian Lathe, I got to relive my youth machining non metallic small parts.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von Bela am 25.10.2015 um 00:46:19

Thanks for the drawing!

Do you have the o-ring? I still have some.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von jimattsson am 25.10.2015 um 21:36:45

Hello Jim, thanks a lot for the drawings. It seems that the seal has been modified over time. As far as I can imagine though, the only really important things about this seal is 1) the flat surfaces in either end that act as valves 2) the overall thickness of 4 mm which defines the travel 3) that there is a grip for the spring in one end. Based upon these three parameters, I suggest a simplified design as in the attached drawing. In my opinion, it should function just as well as the original seal but is a lot easier to manufacture, e. g. by milling 1,5 mm deep circular grooves in a 4 mm rubber sheet and then punching out the seal. What would you say about this?

In Sweden, there is no problem finding inch dimensions of bolts etc. In fact, in the 1960s and even '70s, much machinery was still based on the inch system. Volvo cars into the '80s had engines with inch dimensions etc. To this day, inch dimensions are used in carpentry (disguised by using metric names on them - a two-by-four always was 45 x 95 though).

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von James Allen am 26.10.2015 um 14:23:28

Bela I do not have the O Rings yet. I will be in Germany starting 9 November. Frankfurt, Dusseldorf,Hannover and other stops. You chasing the parts is like trying to push pasta.  No actuall it is all wonderful for me. :)

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von James Allen am 26.10.2015 um 14:35:10

Jan, I show the Outside diameter as 8.8 as opposed to 8.5.  Anyway the pistons seals or Manschette  can be obtained from SKF lubrication systems for so little money. The way I read the drawing there has been two revisions on the 301-024-2 part number. I actually have some of these in my. stock the main difference from the original pistons as I see it is the ,3 x1 mm with the 45 degree chamfer  area on the face of the part.

Yes you guys in Sweden are well use to both the imperial and metric system.  In the late 1970 when I was stationed in Hanau Germany a group of Swedish Drag Racers would come once a year to race on our air strip. They had fantastic cars. We had what ever we could build or find.  The local German guys also had some great machines. I was not a drag racer but my company sponsored the Drag Race Club and it was sure fun to talk with the guys and look at their machines.
Swedish machine tools. You guys imported some wonderful machines into the USA. We loved them.  But now with most all machines CNC things have changed a bit. I am working SKF in the USA to get the pistons. It will not be a success until they are in my hands. I many try a parallel effort while in Germany.  

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von Bela am 26.10.2015 um 19:44:47

Can I send the NBR O-Ring to a hotel or a private address in D (your name and address via PN)? It is for free because I have 4 and it has different dimensions. It is 15,47 x 3,53 instead 15,5 x 13,8. So you have to try if it fits the slot in your cylinder and seal your pump.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von jimattsson am 26.10.2015 um 21:30:05

Hello Jim, did I get you right that the springs and the seals still are available as spares from SKF? In that case, this is really good news for many 170 owners. The matter has been discussed repeatedly before in German but the earlier contacts wit SKF do not seem to have led anywhere. If you can verify that I haven't misunderstood this, I would like to inform about it in the German part of the forum.

Yes the Swedish tool machine industry used to be something of the pride of the nation. But as you say, the advent of numeric control and industry robots has made fine old workmanship obsolete. (I guess the old flintstone makers said the same when bronze axes were introduced...)

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von jimattsson am 22.11.2015 um 22:33:24

Hello, I had a message from our friend Javier about central lubrication:

"Hello Jan,

My 170 SD restoring is progressing, now assembling frame, engine and all sytems.
The car was modified by my father using the frame and front suspensión from a 170S.
After so many years the VOGEL central lubricating system needs to be overhauled....I remember the pump leaked back on the pedal...
Could you confirm which gasket and pistons, etc I could get nowaday?
I used the search function but there is so much info I am not sure where to start from.

I appreciate your help,

Grüss Javier"

I answer here because it doesn't seem to be possible to make an attachment in the PN section. Besides, there may be someone who can help Javier better than I do.

I attach the section on central lubrication from the English workshop manual. I have made some comments to picture Z/04.

First, I doubt very much that you will find any new or even NOS spare parts. You may have to look for used parts if you need replacement.

Specifically, if the Vogel pump leaks into the interior, the gasket at the pump plunger is worn or faulty. In the older pumps, like in picture Z/02, the gasket could be tightened within certain limits, but in the later pumps (picture Z/04) the gasket is kept in place by a bushing which is fastened by a lock screw and non-adjustable. In this case, you will have to disassemble the pump and replace the gasket. I suspect that you will have to fabricate a new gasket yourself. - With the pump disassembled, you should control and possibly replace the rubber disc which serves to prevent oil leakage when the pump is inactivated. I'm afraid that you will need to punch that too out of a neoprene rubber sheet.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von James Allen am 23.11.2015 um 18:42:39

All of the rubber parts for the Vogel system can be purchased from SKF Lubrication systems. The Argus parts are another sad story. I have yet to locate detailed technical information for the Argus system. The O- Ring in the pump is a DIN O- Ring and can be obtained from multiple sources. Bola has some for sale. See his post for the correct size and spefications. That should solve the probin of oil leakage into the cabin. Parts for the Argus oil estributors remain a mystery. :(

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von jimattsson am 23.11.2015 um 22:13:48

Hello Jim, thank you for this information. I will pass it on to the German speaking community.

As for Argus, they seem at present to be a Dunlop-Hiflex subsidiary, concentrating on hydraulics and pneumatics components:

http://www.dunlophiflex.com
http://www.argus-fluidtechnik.de/joomla/index.php/de/home

Maybe you will be able to find out something this way.

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von javier am 27.11.2015 um 22:23:28

Hello,
My 170SD car has a Vogel pump, reference 132-190-2
I am not sure if the oil distributors are Vogel or Argus, here I post some pictures and maybe someone could confirm that, so I can search the apropiate rubber parts.

With thanks,
Javier

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von javier am 27.11.2015 um 22:24:29

Another picture

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von javier am 27.11.2015 um 22:25:08

one more

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von javier am 27.11.2015 um 22:28:02

and more

Titel: Re: Argus Oil lubrication pump / distributors draw
Beitrag von jimattsson am 14.11.2016 um 17:35:02

Thanks a lot Jim for your information on Vogel spare part numbers! I bought a complete set of 15 springs and seals from SKF in Sweden for less than $50. Still haven't found out anything worth sharing about the Argus system though.

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